| JHO |
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Reply with quote | #1 |
ok i want your opiions since there are a lot of qualifiers here on this board, i've already pissed off one other forum board so why not make it two.
you guys see that WTC is drug testing next year for kona and clearwater qualifiers for wada substances? basically they are going to test AG qualifiers like pros, you fail you get a suspension or lose your spot in the race, you have to tell there where you are all the time just like lance. etc.
i have stated that this is the most stupid spending of money by wtc ever.
its just a pr thing to show the public "we are ahead of the curve". AG are not elligible for money, that is for the pros, so why do this? to make yourself feel better. ok.
but who pays for this? unless the labs are doing this for "free or pro bono" which i doubt, money has to come from somewhere. you guessed it your entry fees unless they are again taking this from their own profits (yeah right)
I don't think that entry fees should go up to pay for the testing of qualifiers when 99% of the people dont get this service bc they aren't qualifiers? why should i have to pay for the testing of AG? Unless part of the "qualifier entry fee" is a testing fee that they pay for this is bogus.
now you say "i'm clean they can test me all they want" that is not the question here.
would you be ok if entry fees went up by 100$ but you are not a qualifier so you just paid that for a service you get nothing from?
would you be ok if they cut down on the number of water stops to pay for the testing? (meaning you get less product for the same money)
My vote is no on both, wtc is basically being wankers with this new AG testing. That and sudafed with pseudoephedrine makes you a doper in 2010.
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| KC | |
| RI | |
| KC |
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Reply with quote | #4 |
So,...JHo, if RI's estimate on testing is correct, it will cost ~$20,000 to test AG qualifiers, no? That works out to about $10 extra per participant. Aren't you willing to shell out $10 to protect the integrity of the sport? I've long heard rumors that <Athlete X's> phenomenal performances are the results of EPO. Personally, I don't believe that's true -- I simply believe that <X> is exceptionally gifted and works harder than anybody else. But wouldn't it be nice if he could test clean and silence all the whispers? |
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| RI |
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Reply with quote | #5 |
KC,
I am not mentioning names but I would bet that there would be lots of positive tests for GH, EPO, and testosterone in the AG ranks.
I would gladly pay 20 to be able to see who is cheating. The cheaters skew the results and make it impossible for hard working clean athletes to be competitive.
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| TDK |
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Reply with quote | #6 |
I pay the extra money for drug testing the AGers who qualify for Hawaii, at any, and all races. If you are clean, you won't protest the extra money, or the inconvienence of taking the test. peace |
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| KC |
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Reply with quote | #7 |
Hypocrisy ??? - yeah, something like the courage to post under a pseudonym -- find another forum, loser... |
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| JHO |
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Reply with quote | #8 |
Kc, so its $10 or $100 dollars that is not the point. I should not have to pay one dime for a product that i do not want or get anythign from.
also they are not helping the integrity of the sport, fi they were everyone would be tested then they can truly say they are trying to run a clean sport.
I say the qualifiers can pay for the random testing program. that way they can feel good about themselves.
the 99% of other people should not have to pay for services that they receive nothing from other than your "feel good" attitude.
that is like saying "kc give me money today because i'm a usat official at another race that you are not doing today".
You would never do that ever. why? because you get no benefit from it whatsoever.
come on you are the consumate capitalist, you can't possibly agree with making everyone pay for the testing of a few people, that would mean many people are paying for the services that they are not ever going to take advantage of. that is not the KC that posts on this forum board.
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| JHO |
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Reply with quote | #9 |
remember you folks that say "if you are clean you can't protest"
remember that the wada testing does not require "intent" for a positive test.
meaning if you have it in your body from a test you are dinged. meaning your supplements may be made on the same assembly line as other products and trace amounts could be there in a product its not suppose to be.
this happend with scott moninger a few years ago a pro cyclist, found stuff in him, he proved that the supplement was contaminated with both the bottle he took from and a sealed bottle had it in it also. USA doping said they believed him that he didnt' try to dope and it didnt' give him an advantage, gave him a 2 year ban, because "a positive is a positive" intent didn't matter.
are you really ready to watch your food, intake everything to make sure you are not getting anything contaminated at all? as an amature should you have to do the same things that pros are doing like this?
like i said it doesn't matter how it gets into your systme if its there you are guilty. are you really ready for that type of judgement?
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| KC |
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Reply with quote | #10 |
JHo - you make some good points. I don't really know much about all the drugs that WADA tests for - I don't plan on watching what I eat or at which assembly line my vitamins are made ( I take Vitamin D, Glucosamine Chondroitin, Bromelain, Resveratrol, and Omega-3s), so if the tests are hyper sensitive, that could be a problem for the Age groupers who take vitamins and supplements.
A solution to your issue of the money would be to simply raise the price of the Kona IM (with the extra funds paying for the WADA testing done at qualifying races), so that only the qualifiers are paying for their testing and the rest of the AGs are not.
Also - I disagree with RI. I think that 99.9% of AGs are clean. There is no incentive to cheat since there is no money in it. And in addition to one's personal integrity there is a BIG DISincentive for AGs to use performance substances -- they are really bad for your health and can kill you.
Finally, those on this forum (like JHO)who know me, know that I am a big fan of X because he dominates my AG. But I distinctly remember a bitter age grouper proclaiming (rather loudly) at the Hawaii IM awards dinner five years ago that X uses performance enhancing substances. I was disturbed by this groundless allegation. If we had testing of AGs such unsupported allegations couldn't be made unchallenged. I apologize to X, if my mentioning his name in this context does him a disservice.
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| JHO |
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Reply with quote | #11 |
KC. another problem with drug testing is one that you bring up with "people suspected of doping".
now people may say "so and so seems too fast" etc.. stuff like that.
i don't believe drug testing will do away with these suspicions and innuendos.
here is why.
1. you have A that thinks B is doping but has no proof.
2. A will always think B dopes no matter what.
3. testing of B takes place, comes back clean.
4. A will think B just got around the test and still dopes even though "B never tested positive"
so what you really have is a huge waste of money where yes some can "feel good about testing" and in their mind say "b is clean". but some will just say "B just never tested positive, but is still doping 'smarter'".
will an AG go through all the trouble of dodging testing and such? we don't know.
but the suspicions will always be there even "if you never test positive". See lance armstrong, and any other cyclist that is good but never has a negative.
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| RI |
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Reply with quote | #12 |
For any and all that want to have the priviledge of posting please post YOUR NAME so we know who you are. If you are known it is fine to post initials.
Mind you I allow this to be an open forum to encourage discussion. This includes the dissemination of information, dissenting views, and general kidding. If you have a differing opinion that is okay, but not posting you name makes you lose total credibility.
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| JHO |
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Reply with quote | #13 |
KC like we said in the beginning, really nobody knows what WTC and Mdot are going to do to institute this program.
who knows where the money is coming from? nobody right now knows. Its all guessing on my part and everyone except someone with inside info is guessing.
its an interesting debate and it should be interesting to see how they instituted the testing, how its paid for, and even if it actually goes into affect.
afterall, WTC a few weeks ago wanted to ban the compression socks that covered up AG ages on calves for 2010 races, but renegged on that after getting what amounted to a sh*t storm of feedback from racers and probably compression sock makers that this rule would not be good. At least this is what i read from an Latriclub email that was circulated.
so everything is up in the air till... well till its actualy in place and starting.
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